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  2. New Satern

New Satern

Joe Valvano (N6TCO)
 

Since when you get down to it we are now just a group of hams who have started a new net with no affiliation or backing (regardless of how little there was) will we now become a part of the ARRL National Traffic System or an affiliate of other emergency services already firmly established ?

If not, What protocols and message forms will be used, who will be responsible in the districts for passing/receiving the traffic to/from local nets, etc,etc.etc? These are some pretty basic points of which there are many more.

Just wondering....................

Warren Peiter (WX8OH) <wx8oh@...>
 

Hi Joe. Things are in the works. It will take time to make new Connections and Affiliations. The Group of NCS are advising and suggesting. Lee is tossing around ideas for changes while at the same time moving Forward with making Connections and keeping the  Net going. 

I’m nothing. Just an idea type guy trying to help it all in that way. 

Always good to hear you on Both SATERN and APEN!

Warren - WX8OH
ARES District 9
Buckeye Multi-Mode Net
wx8oh@...


On Apr 26, 2021, at 8:58 AM, Joe Valvano (N6TCO) <jsvalvano@...> wrote:

 Since when you get down to it we are now just a group of hams who have started a new net with no affiliation or backing (regardless of how little there was) will we now become a part of the ARRL National Traffic System or an affiliate of other emergency services already firmly established ?
<dummyfile.0.part>

If not, What protocols and message forms will be used, who will be responsible in the districts for passing/receiving the traffic to/from local nets, etc,etc.etc? These are some pretty basic points of which there are many more.

Just wondering....................

WA5LEE - Lee - Net Manager
 

Well, since we ARE, in fact, new, these things need to be fleshed out as time goes on.
In the precursor of this net, for the last 2 years there was ZERO affiliation with the net for passing traffic, other than the 2 or 3 times we drilled with MARS for a week or so, and that went, as I recall, horribly.
When I tried to institute Message/Traffic handling training on a regular basis, I was thoroughly rebuffed.
In the last 2 years, the only mechanism we had in place for handling emergency/health & welfare messages was through an email or phone call to the 'Liason' for the Net.

We are always open to suggestions, i.e.; what exactly do all the folks that check in wish to see as far as affiliations? Mission? Purpose? The net has basically been a weather-report rag chew for a long time.
IMHO, we need to let the current dust settle before we move to a particular direction after getting some time in to see who will be staying, going, etc.
--

'73 (Best Wishes, for non-Hams)

--... ...-- / -.. . / .-- .- ..... .-.. . .

WA5LEE  (Previously KC3LEE)

Lee Glassman, ARRL VE, COM-T, NREMT #E3525310

Tomball, Texas

https://wa5lee.com

Int’l SSB 20M Net Manager


NW Harris County TX ARES STX Dist. 14 AEC Drill Ops

Houston Methodist Willowbrook Hospital EMCOMM Team

Tomball FD EMCOMM Team

PA Digital Radio Group NCO

https://padmr.net

Northwest Amateur Radio Society

Texas Lonestar DMR Network NCO

http://dmrtexas.net

OMISS #1198

TDXS #219
David Holman
 

To add to that, what kind of training will be needed?

Thanks

David, AC7DS



On 4/26/21 4:04 AM, Joe Valvano (N6TCO) wrote:

Since when you get down to it we are now just a group of hams who have started a new net with no affiliation or backing (regardless of how little there was) will we now become a part of the ARRL National Traffic System or an affiliate of other emergency services already firmly established ?

If not, What protocols and message forms will be used, who will be responsible in the districts for passing/receiving the traffic to/from local nets, etc,etc.etc? These are some pretty basic points of which there are many more.

Just wondering....................

VE5SR/CIW406 Steve <steve.lenaghan@...>
 

For a start at least ICS100 to understand dealing with served agencies

Steve VE5SR/CIW406
Rob Erikson (KG4OPX) <rperikson1@...>
 

Hi All,

 

Lee, I support this group 100%.

 

I agree. I myself keep up on the latest ICS-100, 200, 700, and 800 courses.

 

These courses are required to be a certified AUXCOMM radio operator. NC AUXCOMM requires these courses to support NC State and County EOC’s. We have 100 counties.

 

I support NC Baptist Men’s Disaster Relief, now called NC Baptists on Mission. We have our own radio nets and a mobile communications trailer.

 

I am sure there are other states that are Southern Baptist State members SATERN can support. 

 

During deployments we must submit daily admin reports back to Cary, NC.  Any issues, number meals served, supplies needed, fuel needed for generators, and number of meals needed.  There were times we used relays from non-members to get the information to the NC Baptists on Missions HQ in Cary, NC.

 

My first deployment was in support of the Iowa Floods in 2008 recovery. I used relays to get information back to Cary, NC.  There was no where I could put up a di-pole. No trees around! I clamped a ham stick to a metal garbage container. I could not reach anyone in NC, but I was able to contact Mid Cars to relay information to one of our members in NC. (17 hour bus ride each way was rough.)

 

If God is in it, it will work.

 

73,

Rob KG4OPX

 

P.S.  I never look for a pat on the back. As a cancer survivor I am blessed whenever I can help. They key is to keep the focus on God’s will and not my problems.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: main@SATERN20.groups.io <main@SATERN20.groups.io> On Behalf Of VE5SR/CIW406 Steve
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 12:09 PM
To: main@SATERN20.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SATERN20] New Satern

 

For a start at least ICS100 to understand dealing with served agencies

Steve VE5SR/CIW406

David Holman
 

Steve,

Awesome.  I have already completed the 100, 200, 700 and 800 courses. 

Thanks

David, AC7DS


On 4/26/21 9:08 AM, VE5SR/CIW406 Steve wrote:

For a start at least ICS100 to understand dealing with served agencies

Steve VE5SR/CIW406

Joe Valvano (N6TCO)
 

I have also already completed the 100, 200, 700 and 800 FEMA courses which are required to operate within many agencies and rightfully so to effect smooth operations. Bottom line is unless the standard message format is used (ie ARRL) this group would not be accessible to the NTS. As most of us know from handling traffic this takes practice to be efficient and accurate. 

Of course you can do the way we did it back several years ago and just pass verbal info received to the message final destination area direct.  This in itself has many problems and liabilities.  I also caution dependence on anything requiring the use of non direct communications such as use of the internet.

In the context of disaster management, fail-safe communication is vital during a wide range of actions, from the significant phase of “preparedness” to impart knowledge and information

I am sure you all will figure it out..
Rob Erikson (KG4OPX) <rperikson1@...>
 

NC AUXCOMM has no plans to use NTS to support NC State Emergency Operation Center. The NC SWIC only wants us to use SHARES Winlink and ICS forms.  The NTS system is too slow to support ESF2 and does not fit with ICS. The internet is not needed to pass messages if using Winlink PTP and Radio Only Message Servers. NC has five SHARES go-kits spread across the state.

 

NC Baptists on Mission has obtained three SHARES licenses that we can use for voice and data.

 

I know not everyone is quipped to use SHARES.

 

Rob - KG4OPX

 

From: main@SATERN20.groups.io <main@SATERN20.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joe Valvano (N6TCO)
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 9:10 AM
To: main@SATERN20.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SATERN20] New Satern

 

I have also already completed the 100, 200, 700 and 800 FEMA courses which are required to operate within many agencies and rightfully so to effect smooth operations. Bottom line is unless the standard message format is used (ie ARRL) this group would not be accessible to the NTS. As most of us know from handling traffic this takes practice to be efficient and accurate. 

Of course you can do the way we did it back several years ago and just pass verbal info received to the message final destination area direct.  This in itself has many problems and liabilities.  I also caution dependence on anything requiring the use of non direct communications such as use of the internet.

In the context of disaster management, fail-safe communication is vital during a wide range of actions, from the significant phase of “preparedness” to impart knowledge and information

I am sure you all will figure it out..
Rob Erikson (KG4OPX) <rperikson1@...>
 

There are two SHARES licenses assigned to EDS-SATERN Grand Rapids MI. I wonder who uses them.

 

Rob – KG4OPX

 

From: main@SATERN20.groups.io <main@SATERN20.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joe Valvano (N6TCO)
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 9:10 AM
To: main@SATERN20.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SATERN20] New Satern

 

I have also already completed the 100, 200, 700 and 800 FEMA courses which are required to operate within many agencies and rightfully so to effect smooth operations. Bottom line is unless the standard message format is used (ie ARRL) this group would not be accessible to the NTS. As most of us know from handling traffic this takes practice to be efficient and accurate. 

Of course you can do the way we did it back several years ago and just pass verbal info received to the message final destination area direct.  This in itself has many problems and liabilities.  I also caution dependence on anything requiring the use of non direct communications such as use of the internet.

In the context of disaster management, fail-safe communication is vital during a wide range of actions, from the significant phase of “preparedness” to impart knowledge and information

I am sure you all will figure it out..
Sam Nabkey
 

We do every week.

Sam

From: main@SATERN20.groups.io <main@SATERN20.groups.io> on behalf of Rob Erikson (KG4OPX) <rperikson1@...>
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 11:30:29 AM
To: main@SATERN20.groups.io <main@SATERN20.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SATERN20] New Satern
 

There are two SHARES licenses assigned to EDS-SATERN Grand Rapids MI. I wonder who uses them.

 

Rob – KG4OPX

 

From: main@SATERN20.groups.io <main@SATERN20.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joe Valvano (N6TCO)
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 9:10 AM
To: main@SATERN20.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SATERN20] New Satern

 

I have also already completed the 100, 200, 700 and 800 FEMA courses which are required to operate within many agencies and rightfully so to effect smooth operations. Bottom line is unless the standard message format is used (ie ARRL) this group would not be accessible to the NTS. As most of us know from handling traffic this takes practice to be efficient and accurate. 

Of course you can do the way we did it back several years ago and just pass verbal info received to the message final destination area direct.  This in itself has many problems and liabilities.  I also caution dependence on anything requiring the use of non direct communications such as use of the internet.

In the context of disaster management, fail-safe communication is vital during a wide range of actions, from the significant phase of “preparedness” to impart knowledge and information

I am sure you all will figure it out..
Chip Johnson, KD0UST
 

I have AUXCOMM creds, have done traffic and weather nets, but have decided that FEMA is getting too much in bed with ARRL and ARES.
I am a communicator, by viruys of license and experience, also former police dispatcher, LEO, and fire department chaplain.
I'm old, and tired of jumping through hoops.

I think, if we stay loose, with minimal associations, we can be flexible enough to meet a variety of emergency needs for our communities. If we are tied down too much through credentialing, we limit our options for service.
73 - Lyn, WØLEN
 

Count me in, Guys.  I'm a "member" of the Metro Chicago SATERN Group (if it even exists anymore ...) and started the West Metro 2 meter net a few years ago.  I ran it until last year, when I felt others could take the reins.  Although I no longer participate, due to scheduling issues, I believe it is still going strong.  But it's basically just check-ins.

We have a fairly active ARES group in Illinois, and run exercises a couple times a year.

I also work with the Red Cross and am currently serving on their steering committee and Winlink Tech Support team.  They have a major exercise coming up on May 8th, and if you're interested full details will be posted here (undergoing a few last minute changes):

http://arc-emcomm-training.org/index.html

Last Summer, I organized a group to promote, support and experiment with HF Winlink on a P2P basis.  It's called the "P2P Winlink Group."  We have a Slack site for coordination, and have grown to 118 members nationwide.  It's a lot of fun, and we believe P2P is the best (maybe only ...) way to handle messages in the case of a total grid down scenario.  On April 8th, we ran an exercise with the Red Cross group, and it was hugely successful with only 3 "target" stations in the US.

Bottom line, like many of you I got kind of burned out with all the FEMA (ICS 100, 200, 700, 800) and ARES training.  I am into Ham Radio for the fun of it (50+ years worth) and am not looking to be regimented  or religated to standing around in a canteen making coffee and handing out sandwiches.  I want to communicate, and I want to use my skills to make it work when the chips are down.

Feel free to contact me at any time.
David Holman
 

Unfortunately to use NTS, the ARRL format is used.  I have yet to see an IC-213 to fit into that format and stay under 25 words.  The only real way to send ICS messages efficiently is through digital means, not voice.  Some of the ICS forms I have handled would take significant parts of an hour or more to send accurately with voice.  At that rate, we will not be able to keep up and send the messages in a timely fashion. 

Winlink, FLDIGI, PACTOR and such need to get worked in and trained with much more.  For local communication, VARA FM, Winlink, DSTAR and even bring Packet back will be needed.  Even CW will work better than voice in most cases. 

The place that hams are losing a lot of ground is in privacy.  Sending medical forms over an open connection doesn't sit well with most people. 

These are my experiences working real emergency communications and exercises.  So something to think about. On of the things, as a group we might be able to do, would be to get RMS Express ported to other operating systems than Windows.  There are Winlink programs that will run on other systems, but provide nowhere near the functionality of RMS Express. 

My 2 cents...

David, AC7DS



On 4/27/21 6:10 AM, Joe Valvano (N6TCO) wrote:

I have also already completed the 100, 200, 700 and 800 FEMA courses which are required to operate within many agencies and rightfully so to effect smooth operations. Bottom line is unless the standard message format is used (ie ARRL) this group would not be accessible to the NTS. As most of us know from handling traffic this takes practice to be efficient and accurate. 

Of course you can do the way we did it back several years ago and just pass verbal info received to the message final destination area direct.  This in itself has many problems and liabilities.  I also caution dependence on anything requiring the use of non direct communications such as use of the internet.

In the context of disaster management, fail-safe communication is vital during a wide range of actions, from the significant phase of “preparedness” to impart knowledge and information

I am sure you all will figure it out..
David Holman
 

Rob,

Excellent point.  I believe that more and more emergency services are abandoning ham radio in favor of services like SHARES and MARS, mostly because they can encrypt over the air.   MARS also trains to help with emergency communications.  SHARES is more directly related to FEMA and they can encrypt, something that hams can't do.  MARS being part of the DOD has to wait for orders from the DOD to help out.  I don't see that being a huge problem though. 

Thanks

David, AC7DS


On 4/27/21 8:16 AM, Rob Erikson (KG4OPX) wrote:

NC AUXCOMM has no plans to use NTS to support NC State Emergency Operation Center. The NC SWIC only wants us to use SHARES Winlink and ICS forms.  The NTS system is too slow to support ESF2 and does not fit with ICS. The internet is not needed to pass messages if using Winlink PTP and Radio Only Message Servers. NC has five SHARES go-kits spread across the state.

 

NC Baptists on Mission has obtained three SHARES licenses that we can use for voice and data.

 

I know not everyone is quipped to use SHARES.

 

Rob - KG4OPX

 

From: main@SATERN20.groups.io <main@SATERN20.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joe Valvano (N6TCO)
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 9:10 AM
To: main@SATERN20.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SATERN20] New Satern

 

I have also already completed the 100, 200, 700 and 800 FEMA courses which are required to operate within many agencies and rightfully so to effect smooth operations. Bottom line is unless the standard message format is used (ie ARRL) this group would not be accessible to the NTS. As most of us know from handling traffic this takes practice to be efficient and accurate. 

Of course you can do the way we did it back several years ago and just pass verbal info received to the message final destination area direct.  This in itself has many problems and liabilities.  I also caution dependence on anything requiring the use of non direct communications such as use of the internet.

In the context of disaster management, fail-safe communication is vital during a wide range of actions, from the significant phase of “preparedness” to impart knowledge and information

I am sure you all will figure it out..
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